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so

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[Music]

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what is happening

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[Music]

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uh we have a pretty cool show in store

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for you today i have a dear dear friend

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joining us

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um

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i've done it for a good amount of time

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now i'd say um well you know it's all

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relative i suppose

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but uh i feel like

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i've known him for a while now

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um

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get to know him and get to speak with

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them was this book club that we um

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both

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partake in on a channel called quantum

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which cafe with our friend priscilla

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friend of show

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and

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like uh

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valet is kind of the dominant theme

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lately

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um but it you know the nice part about

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his books is it instigates pretty great

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conversation

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um and i've got to know him through that

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and

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you know listening to his uh podcast

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that he does with uh

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exo academia um liminal frames it's it's

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pretty good stuff they're tackling big

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subjects like

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you know um are the angels and demons um

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and disclosure big d little d all that

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stuff you know

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um

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not taking the easy route that's that's

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for sure so

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um and i appreciate anyone who takes

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that on and of course he's

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with the podcast uh calling all beings

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great group of people over there

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we've had them on for a little bit um

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during that eight hour special that we

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did so

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um what's up everybody in the chat

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appreciate you being here

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um christian joe's robert

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k42d michael

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uh linda what's happening so

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uh lee paul

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you know i actually highlighted um your

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comment earlier i loved it what's this

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all about

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um that's perfect you know what is

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this all about but not just tonight

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always

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uh josh

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what's up

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um benji

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uh esmeralda

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everybody e.t

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um appreciate everybody joining and

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without further

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a do i'm gonna bring in the dude of the

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hour mr

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nathan how are you hey what's up guys

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yeah you know sometimes

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sometimes you just get surprised with

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the i love it be it oh you do okay yeah

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well we can go more surprises oh yeah

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all right the bigger the better

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absolutely yeah

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what is this all about tonight in fact

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or

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depending on where you are this

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afternoon that's right greetings to

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everyone and what part of the globe you

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might find yourself

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yeah so

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um

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well first

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it's uh it's an old mic

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but it's been brought back you know i

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it's part of my switching up you got to

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switch it up

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and it's really a vocal mic but uh it

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works pretty well for this stuff too

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it's probably

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not as good as the shirt but who cares

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you know

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got to switch it up

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so i wanted to bring you on first of all

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i gotta rip my new shirt i love that i

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saw it earlier i was like i gotta get me

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one of those

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um

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which uh reminds me have you

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uh you have not had an experience of

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your own have you correct uh not not any

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kind of uh textbook experience

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um

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my

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sort of only real experience that i can

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think about is a pretty

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big lucid dream that i had when i was in

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college

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and when i watched your show with stuart

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yesterday you guys kind of talked a

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little bit about some of that stuff

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and it made me think back to that

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experience but no i've not had a

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interesting anything that people would

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go that's an experience

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yeah but like well experience

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yeah sure and it's all kind of relative

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right like um

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do you mind sharing what the dream is

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was it something impactful

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oh yeah for sure so i was um

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i was

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i'd finished my freshman year there's no

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sophomore year finished my sophomore

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year

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and was uh living on campus over the

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summer doing some work

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and um

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i just

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i had this very intense dream where i

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was i found myself

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what i would only like you know how

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dreams like locations are weird like you

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like know where you are but there's no

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like signage anywhere

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so i knew that i was in uh i was

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basically at the top of the world i was

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at the north pole you know i was like it

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was very

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icy

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uh and there was this um

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you know very ancient looking

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man there who i didn't it didn't it was

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well this wasn't god it was just like

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some ancient looking person

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and i don't remember what he told me but

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he would you know he i kind of was there

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watching him and then the next thing i

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knew i was

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inside of a building like an apartment

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complex

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next to the ocean

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because half of the apartment complex

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had been blown off like

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uh like um

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you know if you've ever seen a like a

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building demolition you know kind of how

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the layers kind of fall down like it's

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like

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half the building had kind of fallen off

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and the inner

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the apartments were exposed to the

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outside air so i was in this

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apartment room looking out at the ocean

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very dark clouds

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uh

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you know kind of very dark atmosphere i

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could kind of see down the coastline it

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felt like it was kind of in florida

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so there because there were a lot of

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like condo buildings and stuff but

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everything was really

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gray and desolate looking kind of war

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torn

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and the next thing i knew was on the

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beach and i was looking out at the ocean

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and uh

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and in the sky

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kind of up to my right

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there were all of these like swirling

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spinning orbs of different colors

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uh just like a lot of dancing

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um

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you know

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a circular pattern up in the sky up to

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the right and then i looked back at the

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ocean

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uh the waters had been like receded so

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there the water had had

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basically kind of like gone um

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and i could see into the lower parts of

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the ocean and there were these

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enormous like

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um

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almost like skeletal rings

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like you know you think of like a whale

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carcass in a way

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but they were they were manufactured uh

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but but not

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you know not smooth or neat very kind of

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like

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rusty or you know but and they but they

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created this

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almost like this tunnel

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uh

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into that expanse i didn't see where it

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went i just just created this tunnel

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path so i'm looking at this thing

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and i'm feeling this compulsion to go

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down this path so i start going down the

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path and then i can hear behind me

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kind of this voice

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you know telling me not to do that like

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don't

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go that way so i turn around

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and on the shore

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is uh my now my wife so she was on the

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shore we weren't dating at that time uh

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we had dated and kind of stopped dating

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and you know so i turned around to see

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her and she was like you can't go you

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can't do that you can't go down that

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pathway and i just remember like

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thinking like

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she's right like there's no way i should

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not do this so i went back to her and

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then i woke up and

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it was one of those dreams where like it

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was so

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like viscerally real that like i think

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about it

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a lot like i mean probably at least once

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a week

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well um and it kind of

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uh

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i would say it does kind of characterize

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the way i even think about my

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relationship with her you know it's

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interesting yeah it's weird isn't it

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isn't that weird that like the

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the subtleness of something like that

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that you know could be

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written off by some people it's just a

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dream but the subtleness of it and how

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it affects you know

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it your actions or

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you know your life basically

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oh it's interesting

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and that's why i think it's you know

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maybe maybe some dreams are just uh

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dreams

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you know whatever but

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sometimes i feel like big ones come

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along

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you know they really have an effect on

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you and that sounds like one what's

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interesting there is that you

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basically saw ufos

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yeah

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then you know wasn't my thing and i

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certainly didn't know anything about the

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orbs or anything like that so yeah

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and then the uh the path you know jay

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actually uh wednesday frenchie

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um actually you know uh had an

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interesting way of putting

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uh those dreams in perspective a little

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bit with where you're in different kind

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of

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um

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i don't know scene so to speak like

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first you have the scene where you're

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seeing the building where it's kind of

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you know

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um

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being demolished or had that look at

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least

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and then all of a sudden you're on a

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beach like what the hell right and

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i completely relate to that where i have

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these dreams where i'm in

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some place that feels like it should be

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normal

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but it completely

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i don't recognize anything

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and then all of a sudden the dream

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always kind of ends or transitions to

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this completely other spot

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you know whether it be outside of the

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building or

292
00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:36,320
one time it was like a parking garage

293
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:37,279
thing

294
00:10:41,750 --> 00:10:40,240
um and then the dream is kind of over

295
00:10:43,190 --> 00:10:41,760
and it's like

296
00:10:44,630 --> 00:10:43,200
you know when you're in the dream that's

297
00:10:46,630 --> 00:10:44,640
kind of like

298
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:46,640
you know you're in this other realm or

299
00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:49,760
other world so to speak and then

300
00:10:54,550 --> 00:10:52,079
that last scene is like your transition

301
00:10:56,870 --> 00:10:54,560
space back to normal

302
00:10:59,190 --> 00:10:56,880
waking life normal you know

303
00:11:01,110 --> 00:10:59,200
so i don't you know it makes sense when

304
00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:01,120
i think about it do i you know i don't

305
00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:03,360
have any scientific proof

306
00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:06,160
right but but back to your point i mean

307
00:11:09,509 --> 00:11:07,920
they're they are impactful right that's

308
00:11:11,269 --> 00:11:09,519
kind of the interesting thing about them

309
00:11:14,389 --> 00:11:11,279
is that there are these experiences that

310
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:14,399
we have not just our dream life but our

311
00:11:18,310 --> 00:11:15,920
you know weird things that happen to all

312
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:18,320
of us just on a daily basis that

313
00:11:22,069 --> 00:11:19,600
they're not

314
00:11:24,310 --> 00:11:22,079
um what we could go point to and say oh

315
00:11:26,150 --> 00:11:24,320
that's profound or you know that's some

316
00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:26,160
sort of scientific thing i can i can

317
00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:27,120
look at

318
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:28,720
but they end up

319
00:11:32,949 --> 00:11:30,880
changing the way we behave

320
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:32,959
yeah changing the way we think about the

321
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:35,200
present the past you know what we might

322
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:37,200
want to do that in the future

323
00:11:40,829 --> 00:11:38,640
i find that pretty interesting do you

324
00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:40,839
have do you ever have like

325
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:43,040
um recurring dreams like they just kind

326
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:45,600
of keep happening uh over and over like

327
00:11:48,949 --> 00:11:47,120
i have them but i don't remember them

328
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:48,959
but but i know that i'm having them you

329
00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:50,800
know that's a weird way to dreams are

330
00:11:56,550 --> 00:11:54,160
for me hard to articulate i'm not like a

331
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:56,560
consistent dreamer but i have them where

332
00:11:59,430 --> 00:11:57,920
i'm like yeah i've done this before it's

333
00:12:00,629 --> 00:11:59,440
like i'm going through the same kind of

334
00:12:01,590 --> 00:12:00,639
movie

335
00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:01,600
before

336
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:03,120
i had

337
00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:05,760
reoccurring dreams when i was uh younger

338
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:07,600
but never the only thing that was

339
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:09,440
reoccurring was um

340
00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:12,320
like certain aspects of it as far as

341
00:12:16,470 --> 00:12:14,079
like i could always fly

342
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:16,480
that was like an attribute of mine in my

343
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:18,639
dreams and i just knew that was a part

344
00:12:22,150 --> 00:12:20,880
of me there so i could fly like one time

345
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:22,160
i remember

346
00:12:26,150 --> 00:12:23,279
um

347
00:12:27,750 --> 00:12:26,160
flying it like uh it was like a almost

348
00:12:29,030 --> 00:12:27,760
like a business or i was putting on a

349
00:12:31,110 --> 00:12:29,040
show and

350
00:12:32,710 --> 00:12:31,120
i had a show in europe and flew all the

351
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,720
way over to europe to do this show in

352
00:12:35,750 --> 00:12:34,480
like an arena or something and fly

353
00:12:37,509 --> 00:12:35,760
around and people

354
00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:37,519
you know and that's before i you know

355
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:39,519
did actually play concerts and stuff so

356
00:12:45,030 --> 00:12:42,959
that's interesting to think about but um

357
00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:45,040
but that was the only uh

358
00:12:49,509 --> 00:12:47,680
reoccurring thing otherwise

359
00:12:53,430 --> 00:12:49,519
well i just had a big cat dream the

360
00:12:55,430 --> 00:12:53,440
other day i had one before i remember

361
00:12:57,350 --> 00:12:55,440
but you know that's only twice i guess

362
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:57,360
but i do know that happens like my

363
00:13:00,870 --> 00:12:58,880
father tells me when he was young he

364
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:00,880
always had a reoccurring dream falling

365
00:13:04,629 --> 00:13:02,399
off a cliff and every time before he

366
00:13:08,629 --> 00:13:04,639
would hit the ground he'd wake up wow

367
00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:08,639
which is interesting but um yeah so

368
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:10,480
i don't know i know

369
00:13:15,190 --> 00:13:13,120
that some people also kind of attach

370
00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:15,200
reoccurring dreams or something to your

371
00:13:19,990 --> 00:13:17,360
subconscious and it being somewhat

372
00:13:21,910 --> 00:13:20,000
attached to past life perhaps

373
00:13:23,430 --> 00:13:21,920
you know and and whatever that is i

374
00:13:25,670 --> 00:13:23,440
don't know i don't know but that they

375
00:13:27,350 --> 00:13:25,680
are very interesting um and to dissect

376
00:13:30,870 --> 00:13:27,360
them is sometimes is

377
00:13:31,829 --> 00:13:30,880
um the most interesting to me although

378
00:13:33,030 --> 00:13:31,839
you know

379
00:13:36,629 --> 00:13:33,040
i'm sure you'd agree you got to be

380
00:13:38,710 --> 00:13:36,639
careful not to attach to anything

381
00:13:40,710 --> 00:13:38,720
for sure without knowing but

382
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:40,720
uh when did you have that dream

383
00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:46,829
19.

384
00:13:54,310 --> 00:13:49,360
wow uh 43

385
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:56,150
good answer good answer

386
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:58,000
so again

387
00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:59,440
that's around the time when i had the

388
00:14:03,030 --> 00:14:01,040
dream i was talking about yesterday i

389
00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:03,040
was around that age

390
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:05,279
and it's interesting how much that

391
00:14:09,910 --> 00:14:08,639
sticks with you like the detail you were

392
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:09,920
you know you're describing what you

393
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:11,360
could but i could

394
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:13,680
see that you could see it in your you

395
00:14:19,350 --> 00:14:18,240
know in your head and find detail um

396
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:19,360
now you

397
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:21,360
kind of had somewhat of a religious

398
00:14:24,870 --> 00:14:23,199
upbringing i was watching on ucr a

399
00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:24,880
little bit and you were

400
00:14:30,389 --> 00:14:27,680
going to become a priest correct yeah

401
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:30,399
yeah yeah that's right i was i grew up

402
00:14:34,230 --> 00:14:32,399
in a um

403
00:14:36,470 --> 00:14:34,240
christian home in the in the baptist

404
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:36,480
tradition my dad was a minister

405
00:14:38,949 --> 00:14:37,519
um

406
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:38,959
i didn't

407
00:14:43,110 --> 00:14:41,440
grow up southern baptist uh you know

408
00:14:44,710 --> 00:14:43,120
it's it's weird i'm sorry i apologize

409
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,720
for explaining this every time but

410
00:14:49,030 --> 00:14:46,320
basically you know there are different

411
00:14:51,269 --> 00:14:49,040
flavors of baptist and uh i grew up in

412
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:51,279
kind of the more liberal spectrum side

413
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:53,199
of it than the southern baptist side of

414
00:14:55,189 --> 00:14:54,000
it

415
00:14:58,550 --> 00:14:55,199
um

416
00:15:01,189 --> 00:14:58,560
and yeah so like half of my life i was

417
00:15:02,150 --> 00:15:01,199
in church at least three times a week

418
00:15:07,990 --> 00:15:02,160
um

419
00:15:09,509 --> 00:15:08,000
our house was like

420
00:15:11,990 --> 00:15:09,519
kind of very academically focused you

421
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:12,000
know like very big on you know books

422
00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:13,920
reading questions

423
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:15,440
you know philosophy

424
00:15:18,629 --> 00:15:17,120
learning you know like that was just a

425
00:15:20,150 --> 00:15:18,639
big part of

426
00:15:21,829 --> 00:15:20,160
of our

427
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:21,839
home culture you know and that and

428
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:23,440
that's what my dad kind of brought to

429
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:26,399
the church as well like that was the

430
00:15:30,550 --> 00:15:28,880
you know his way of um

431
00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:30,560
unpacking the bible and everything was

432
00:15:34,629 --> 00:15:32,560
very much from that kind of uh

433
00:15:35,350 --> 00:15:34,639
historical critical

434
00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:35,360
uh

435
00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:38,480
textual criticism you know so looking at

436
00:15:42,470 --> 00:15:40,480
the bible from how it's read in the

437
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:42,480
original language and like the different

438
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:45,199
meanings that are there metaphor and

439
00:15:49,110 --> 00:15:47,040
rhetoric and all that kind of stuff so i

440
00:15:51,590 --> 00:15:49,120
i and i never

441
00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:51,600
i never came to my christianity from a

442
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:52,560
you know from a particularly

443
00:15:55,829 --> 00:15:54,399
conservative slant i was always you know

444
00:15:59,189 --> 00:15:55,839
kind of looking at it pretty from pretty

445
00:16:00,949 --> 00:15:59,199
open-ended perspective and then i

446
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:00,959
when i was in school

447
00:16:04,870 --> 00:16:03,440
um i had friends from

448
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:04,880
who had you know from families all over

449
00:16:08,069 --> 00:16:06,160
the world so they had all kinds of

450
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:08,079
different traditions and so my my close

451
00:16:10,389 --> 00:16:09,120
friends were

452
00:16:12,629 --> 00:16:10,399
you know just kind of a little bit of

453
00:16:14,949 --> 00:16:12,639
everything um and nothing

454
00:16:16,389 --> 00:16:14,959
and that heavily influenced me as well

455
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:16,399
uh just just growing up having

456
00:16:20,470 --> 00:16:18,399
conversations with them about you know

457
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:20,480
their their experiences and things but

458
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:23,040
so when i went to college um

459
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:24,880
i

460
00:16:34,829 --> 00:16:33,120
job

461
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:34,839
yeah very interesting

462
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:37,600
um and uh kind of toward the end of my

463
00:16:41,430 --> 00:16:39,600
school my undergrad i was like you know

464
00:16:43,590 --> 00:16:41,440
i really feel like i still need to know

465
00:16:45,990 --> 00:16:43,600
and understand more about this the

466
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:46,000
religious stuff that it's such a part of

467
00:16:48,949 --> 00:16:46,720
me

468
00:16:51,269 --> 00:16:48,959
so yeah so i went to seminary

469
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:51,279
let me ask you this what like

470
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:54,480
do you ever get the feeling like um

471
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:56,079
or do you sense that a lot of people in

472
00:17:00,790 --> 00:16:59,360
ufology especially around disclosure

473
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:00,800
um kind of

474
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:02,639
have the same

475
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:05,439
relationship with it as some christians

476
00:17:09,669 --> 00:17:08,160
do with let's say the end times or the

477
00:17:13,990 --> 00:17:09,679
book of revelation

478
00:17:15,510 --> 00:17:14,000
sure yeah well yeah i think that um

479
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:15,520
that's why i find like religious studies

480
00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:17,439
to be a good lens to look at the

481
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:20,400
phenomenon or look at ufology because

482
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:22,319
you know we all we're kind of dealing

483
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:23,760
with um

484
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:24,959
you know sort of the ways in which

485
00:17:28,950 --> 00:17:27,600
belief systems influence us

486
00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:28,960
and

487
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:30,640
just like in religion where people have

488
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:33,679
some people have experiences that are

489
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,799
you know that they

490
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:36,960
their religious experiences their they

491
00:17:41,909 --> 00:17:37,760
see

492
00:17:43,830 --> 00:17:41,919
know feel like they've connected with

493
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:43,840
jesus or you know like there's a whole

494
00:17:47,430 --> 00:17:45,760
bunch of things that people talk about

495
00:17:48,870 --> 00:17:47,440
and then they're also those that don't

496
00:17:50,870 --> 00:17:48,880
have those experiences but are in

497
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:50,880
community with those who are

498
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:53,200
and so that's just like in my opinion

499
00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,720
the ufo community have those that have

500
00:17:58,310 --> 00:17:56,640
had experiences those and those who

501
00:18:00,470 --> 00:17:58,320
haven't but are in community with those

502
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:00,480
who have so you're learning like a

503
00:18:05,590 --> 00:18:02,799
language you're learning how to

504
00:18:08,549 --> 00:18:05,600
uh you know sort of interpret and

505
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:08,559
reinforce and also i think if it's a

506
00:18:11,669 --> 00:18:09,840
healthy community you have kind of

507
00:18:13,510 --> 00:18:11,679
questions around what's going on you're

508
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:13,520
trying to get it the truth you know

509
00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:15,200
there's there's this search for ultimate

510
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:17,760
meaning you know all of these things are

511
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,840
very much the same across those

512
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:21,200
disciplines

513
00:18:25,830 --> 00:18:24,240
yeah i wonder if sometimes

514
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:25,840
uh that's why

515
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:27,280
you know well i guess i should put it

516
00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:30,320
this way i i don't know if it's that

517
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,120
um it's true that there's a lot more

518
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:35,440
people involved with this that come from

519
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:37,919
background similar to ours

520
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:39,520
you know or

521
00:18:43,110 --> 00:18:42,160
if i'm just gravitating towards those

522
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:43,120
people

523
00:18:45,620 --> 00:18:45,360
you know kind of maybe subconsciously

524
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:45,630
or

525
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:46,960
[Music]

526
00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:49,440
you know i'm just you know noticing that

527
00:18:53,590 --> 00:18:51,919
for some reason i don't know but

528
00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:53,600
but i definitely have and i wonder if

529
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:55,360
it's just because

530
00:19:02,310 --> 00:18:56,480
um

531
00:19:05,669 --> 00:19:02,320
supernatural perhaps

532
00:19:06,549 --> 00:19:05,679
that's kind of instilled in in um

533
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:06,559
you know

534
00:19:10,470 --> 00:19:08,720
i don't want to say trained but i guess

535
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:10,480
you're kind of trained to accept the

536
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:12,960
supernatural or paranormal to a certain

537
00:19:16,150 --> 00:19:14,160
extent

538
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:16,160
um what are your thoughts on that yeah

539
00:19:20,470 --> 00:19:18,160
well you can come at it from a couple

540
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:20,480
angles so you know first i think uh if

541
00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:22,320
you're in the west you know most of us

542
00:19:26,310 --> 00:19:24,880
are steeped in a judeo-christian culture

543
00:19:28,789 --> 00:19:26,320
you know just by virtue of being born

544
00:19:30,230 --> 00:19:28,799
here so you're more likely than not to

545
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:30,240
run to somebody that's got some

546
00:19:33,590 --> 00:19:32,160
religious person in their family if they

547
00:19:35,029 --> 00:19:33,600
have if they themselves haven't also

548
00:19:37,270 --> 00:19:35,039
been religious so just by you know

549
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,280
statistically that that's part of it

550
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:39,600
but those who haven't and who have

551
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:41,919
kind of gravitated to ufos and the

552
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:44,080
phenomenon you know generally are doing

553
00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:45,760
that from from two

554
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:47,440
perspectives they've had an actual

555
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:49,440
experience of it and that's compelled

556
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:51,600
them to study a lot more and then those

557
00:19:55,350 --> 00:19:53,120
that are coming at it from the from the

558
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:55,360
technology or the scientific

559
00:20:00,950 --> 00:19:58,559
you know curiosity perspective um

560
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:00,960
and you know so that they bring a whole

561
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:03,760
different uh set of you know sort of

562
00:20:07,270 --> 00:20:05,760
preconceptions and needs or whatever to

563
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:07,280
the topic

564
00:20:12,390 --> 00:20:11,120
what i like about it is that um

565
00:20:13,990 --> 00:20:12,400
for me it's it's like an

566
00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:14,000
all-encompassing

567
00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:16,320
subject you know it really kind of inc

568
00:20:22,149 --> 00:20:19,520
it's inclusive of religious experience

569
00:20:24,070 --> 00:20:22,159
but also transcends that as well and

570
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:24,080
it's it's inclusive of scientific

571
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:26,400
knowledge that we currently have but

572
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:29,120
seeks to transcend that as well you know

573
00:20:32,789 --> 00:20:30,480
it's looking at

574
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:32,799
what are the horizons of our knowledge

575
00:20:40,070 --> 00:20:37,200
and science that this idea represents

576
00:20:42,230 --> 00:20:40,080
yeah there's not like this um this split

577
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:42,240
science versus religion or

578
00:20:47,669 --> 00:20:44,080
anything where i feel like religion has

579
00:20:50,710 --> 00:20:47,679
some archaeology to it and

580
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,720
but um even this uh

581
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:52,480
um topic

582
00:20:57,029 --> 00:20:55,280
can include that too absolutely

583
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,039
you know yeah like relics you know like

584
00:21:01,029 --> 00:20:59,200
that's it's very much the same you know

585
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:01,039
i've got this piece of metal

586
00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:02,640
and i'm studying in the laboratory and

587
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:04,400
it means something and you know yeah

588
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:05,520
it's just

589
00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:06,880
it's all wrapped up

590
00:21:08,549 --> 00:21:07,760
um

591
00:21:14,950 --> 00:21:08,559
that

592
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:14,960
um the two kind of

593
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:17,039
could meet in the future i mean they're

594
00:21:20,470 --> 00:21:18,799
dancing around each other at the moment

595
00:21:23,190 --> 00:21:20,480
obviously in the uh

596
00:21:25,590 --> 00:21:23,200
world but you could see that's where at

597
00:21:27,830 --> 00:21:25,600
one point there's a

598
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:27,840
theology or a you know belief system

599
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:31,679
that meets science and kind of converges

600
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:32,720
there

601
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:33,600
um

602
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:34,640
that would be

603
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:37,120
an interesting scene to play out that's

604
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:39,360
for sure yeah well it's almost like two

605
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:41,679
like history right there's um

606
00:21:47,110 --> 00:21:44,159
i i wondered to the degree to which we

607
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:47,120
are circling back around toward a

608
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:48,480
uh

609
00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:50,799
more of a unified view of these of these

610
00:21:55,669 --> 00:21:53,760
subjects so for the longest time

611
00:21:57,510 --> 00:21:55,679
pre-science you know it's not that there

612
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:57,520
wasn't science happening it's just that

613
00:22:01,990 --> 00:21:59,440
science is a discipline

614
00:22:04,549 --> 00:22:02,000
sort of uh

615
00:22:06,310 --> 00:22:04,559
divorced from religion didn't exist you

616
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:06,320
know they were really

617
00:22:11,110 --> 00:22:09,120
one in the same the church you know had

618
00:22:13,510 --> 00:22:11,120
folks that were scholars and they

619
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,520
learned things and they would you know

620
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:15,760
our genetic science that we know now

621
00:22:19,750 --> 00:22:17,679
came out of uh you know something that a

622
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:19,760
monk was studying you know it's like

623
00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:21,600
these were very much entwined but then

624
00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:23,360
at some point

625
00:22:25,510 --> 00:22:24,400
uh

626
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:25,520
i think

627
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:27,440
the the thinkers of the day basically

628
00:22:30,950 --> 00:22:29,200
felt like they couldn't it couldn't

629
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:30,960
freely pursue

630
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:33,280
the conclusions that their research

631
00:22:36,070 --> 00:22:34,960
were revealing to them because the

632
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:36,080
church was

633
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:38,080
you know kind of holding them back from

634
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:39,679
making some of these proclamations so it

635
00:22:43,350 --> 00:22:41,840
was it was affronting the knowledge of

636
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:43,360
the church right so they basically said

637
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:45,120
well we're not we're not going to talk

638
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:47,280
about the the religion stuff we're going

639
00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:48,720
to break this off and we're going to

640
00:22:51,430 --> 00:22:50,080
we're going to kind of categorize it

641
00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:51,440
differently so we're not a threat to you

642
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,960
guys like you guys can still do your

643
00:22:57,029 --> 00:22:54,960
thing like we can still be christian

644
00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:57,039
we're gonna do this like science stuff

645
00:23:00,549 --> 00:22:58,400
you know we're gonna it's it's not a

646
00:23:01,909 --> 00:23:00,559
threat it's just different stuff

647
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:01,919
and so you have this you have this kind

648
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:03,760
of divorce happening there and i think

649
00:23:07,510 --> 00:23:05,280
what we're seeing now at least what the

650
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:07,520
potential of this topic represents is

651
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:10,480
this um reunion of these

652
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:13,440
ideas where it validates

653
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:15,919
the spectrum of human experience

654
00:23:18,789 --> 00:23:17,520
and also

655
00:23:20,710 --> 00:23:18,799
includes

656
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:20,720
our scientific understanding it's it's

657
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:23,120
it's saying you know why not try to find

658
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:24,000
a

659
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,760
of these things

660
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:29,280
yeah

661
00:23:37,510 --> 00:23:36,000
to wonder like uh you go down well at

662
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:37,520
least i do go down the get the

663
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:40,960
conspiracy um hole of who's setting that

664
00:23:44,950 --> 00:23:43,279
up you know it can be very powerful

665
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:44,960
right i mean for anyone who's been in

666
00:23:48,310 --> 00:23:46,640
the church you know how powerful those

667
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:48,320
narratives are and those

668
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:50,960
the people who are uh you know kind of

669
00:23:54,310 --> 00:23:52,400
in control

670
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:54,320
of the narrative are

671
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:56,640
largely in control of of you you know

672
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:58,480
depending on your allegiance to that

673
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:00,640
community but you know just and just

674
00:24:05,029 --> 00:24:02,720
like that though we we we don't

675
00:24:06,230 --> 00:24:05,039
necessarily see the ways in which

676
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:06,240
those who are

677
00:24:10,070 --> 00:24:07,919
you know kind of in control of society

678
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:10,080
now have their own you know sort of

679
00:24:13,990 --> 00:24:11,760
narrative that they tell us and that we

680
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:14,000
fit into or born into and

681
00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:16,559
it's reinforced to us in some clear and

682
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:18,799
some not so clear and subtle ways

683
00:24:22,789 --> 00:24:20,559
so it's um

684
00:24:24,070 --> 00:24:22,799
i think that we like to pretend as if

685
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:24,080
we're

686
00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:27,200
belief you know god you know i don't i

687
00:24:31,029 --> 00:24:29,039
don't i'm not a believer person i don't

688
00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:31,039
have faith and stuff i need i'm a data

689
00:24:34,870 --> 00:24:33,200
person you know but we

690
00:24:37,110 --> 00:24:34,880
but the reality is like we're all

691
00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:37,120
programmed in some form or fashion

692
00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:40,400
and uh and we have preconceptions based

693
00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:41,919
that we've inherited from the world in

694
00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:43,600
which we find ourselves and hopefully we

695
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:45,840
have gone through periods of questioning

696
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:47,840
and doubt and search and

697
00:24:51,830 --> 00:24:50,240
all that kind of stuff but um

698
00:24:53,510 --> 00:24:51,840
you know i think it's a little bit naive

699
00:24:55,590 --> 00:24:53,520
to pretend like you're above all that

700
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:55,600
like you're not affected by it

701
00:25:00,870 --> 00:24:57,840
yeah and you in the end you're still you

702
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:00,880
know having faith in data

703
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:03,520
you know and that that data is accurate

704
00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:05,120
you know and

705
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:07,840
you know one plus one is two sure but

706
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:09,679
why is one one

707
00:25:12,630 --> 00:25:11,360
you know then then it all gets kind of

708
00:25:14,789 --> 00:25:12,640
screwed up

709
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:14,799
um but

710
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:18,320
you know i was just um listening to the

711
00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:20,960
episode that you did on uh liminal

712
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:23,600
frames about disclosure and what that

713
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:24,960
means

714
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:26,240
um i

715
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:28,880
find it very interesting that this kind

716
00:25:33,110 --> 00:25:30,720
of um

717
00:25:34,950 --> 00:25:33,120
uh heat wave so to speak of disclosure

718
00:25:37,830 --> 00:25:34,960
came along with

719
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:37,840
uh you know lou elizondo i guess and and

720
00:25:41,909 --> 00:25:39,840
all that kind of stuff although he's i

721
00:25:43,990 --> 00:25:41,919
don't believe he's ever specifically

722
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:44,000
said like hey i'm bringing on disclosure

723
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:46,000
or anything right he's you know just

724
00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:47,840
trying to do the best he can to maybe

725
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:50,240
get government to do their part

726
00:25:54,470 --> 00:25:51,600
um

727
00:25:56,789 --> 00:25:54,480
so what do you think

728
00:26:00,630 --> 00:25:56,799
you know

729
00:26:02,549 --> 00:26:00,640
you talked about the government's role

730
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:02,559
in it and and how

731
00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:05,440
um you would expect them to come up with

732
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:07,360
a good way to communicate this sort of

733
00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:09,520
thing uh to people

734
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:12,720
um let me ask you this if if you were in

735
00:26:17,350 --> 00:26:14,960
that role and you had to come up with

736
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:17,360
maybe a couple step plan what would you

737
00:26:20,710 --> 00:26:18,799
do

738
00:26:21,750 --> 00:26:20,720
yeah well it depends on how weird it is

739
00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:21,760
right so

740
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:27,039
let's use a couple of examples so let's

741
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,880
say that initially

742
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:30,880
the us government's understanding of

743
00:26:34,310 --> 00:26:32,720
this was

744
00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:34,320
kind of the on-ramp where most of us

745
00:26:39,029 --> 00:26:36,320
come to this topic like

746
00:26:40,950 --> 00:26:39,039
these are not human creatures not human

747
00:26:42,710 --> 00:26:40,960
craft

748
00:26:44,470 --> 00:26:42,720
i don't see them around like the street

749
00:26:45,990 --> 00:26:44,480
anywhere so they must have come from

750
00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:46,000
space like

751
00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:48,240
so like that's a pretty simple

752
00:26:51,350 --> 00:26:49,840
you know explanation

753
00:26:53,430 --> 00:26:51,360
and i think they were kind of probably

754
00:26:55,830 --> 00:26:53,440
close to just saying that you know like

755
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:55,840
it's like hey we've you know

756
00:27:00,070 --> 00:26:57,520
we found them and

757
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:00,080
here they are whatever um

758
00:27:04,789 --> 00:27:02,640
and then i kind of of the opinion that

759
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:04,799
as they really started to study it more

760
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:07,279
or maybe become more exposed to it

761
00:27:11,830 --> 00:27:09,520
various ways they realized that that it

762
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:11,840
was a lot more complicated than that you

763
00:27:15,269 --> 00:27:13,919
know that it wasn't just you know there

764
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:15,279
from space that

765
00:27:19,350 --> 00:27:16,640
you know that it was it had many

766
00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:19,360
different layers to it

767
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:21,039
and the the more the more that it got

768
00:27:24,870 --> 00:27:22,720
studied or the more that they didn't

769
00:27:27,110 --> 00:27:24,880
understand you know that they came to

770
00:27:29,350 --> 00:27:27,120
this realization that

771
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:29,360
they had less sort of

772
00:27:33,350 --> 00:27:31,360
they had they did not have a clean

773
00:27:34,870 --> 00:27:33,360
narrative to actually communicate to

774
00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:34,880
anyone what it was

775
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:36,640
and they don't have the answers right so

776
00:27:40,630 --> 00:27:38,480
that that i think kind of

777
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:40,640
in a quick way summarizes like where we

778
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:43,360
are but you have to get people

779
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:45,440
so you start by getting them comfortable

780
00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:46,799
talking about

781
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:49,039
you know we're not alone in the universe

782
00:27:51,990 --> 00:27:50,799
um which most people i think at this

783
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:52,000
point are

784
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:54,880
you know on board with that 100 percent

785
00:27:57,990 --> 00:27:56,799
uh and we're not just we're not alone

786
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:58,000
but they're

787
00:28:01,990 --> 00:28:00,080
they're close you know they're here and

788
00:28:03,909 --> 00:28:02,000
uh we don't and they're maybe there's

789
00:28:05,830 --> 00:28:03,919
more than one kind you know but their

790
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,840
life is everywhere and

791
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:07,679
you know they've intersected with us but

792
00:28:11,190 --> 00:28:09,679
i think this concept still is also

793
00:28:13,269 --> 00:28:11,200
pretty easy to

794
00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:13,279
communicate unless you

795
00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:16,480
are in a position where you can't uh

796
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:18,960
kind of pacify people like you can't say

797
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:20,000
you know what you don't what you don't

798
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,320
want to say for example is they're here

799
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:24,720
and some of them are really like

800
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:26,960
mad and bad and they can literally like

801
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,640
manifest in your room and we i'm sorry

802
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:30,240
there's nothing we can do about it

803
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:31,200
you're like

804
00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:32,880
that that's not a story that you want to

805
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:34,240
tell anyone

806
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:36,159
yeah um so

807
00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:37,600
but let's say let's take it a step

808
00:28:40,789 --> 00:28:39,120
further than that let's say that it's

809
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:40,799
not just even that

810
00:28:46,549 --> 00:28:43,440
you know let's say that uh it really

811
00:28:48,470 --> 00:28:46,559
gets to the heart of

812
00:28:51,029 --> 00:28:48,480
the way in which we understand what is

813
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:51,039
like what is actually real yeah you know

814
00:28:56,310 --> 00:28:54,640
yeah so with that you have to change uh

815
00:28:58,230 --> 00:28:56,320
our really like our

816
00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:58,240
the fabric of how we all understand

817
00:29:02,470 --> 00:29:00,559
reality has to has to change and i think

818
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:02,480
this is an interesting avenue to look at

819
00:29:06,470 --> 00:29:05,520
because we we tend to in the 21st

820
00:29:08,789 --> 00:29:06,480
century

821
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:08,799
i think believe that where we've settled

822
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:11,120
on our metaphysics like is like done

823
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:12,399
like yeah we've

824
00:29:16,870 --> 00:29:14,559
we've explained it like here's material

825
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:16,880
things and atoms and you know quantum

826
00:29:19,909 --> 00:29:18,640
physics and like this is it this is this

827
00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:19,919
is the perfect you know we have some

828
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:21,440
questions still but this is like pretty

829
00:29:25,590 --> 00:29:23,200
much what it is we feel pretty good

830
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:25,600
about it and the reality is if you look

831
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:27,760
at history at all you can see that there

832
00:29:31,669 --> 00:29:29,840
are points in history where

833
00:29:33,909 --> 00:29:31,679
these models

834
00:29:34,630 --> 00:29:33,919
absolutely do shift and change and so i

835
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:34,640
think

836
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:36,960
understanding that that's that's going

837
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:39,200
to happen and should happen

838
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:41,360
gets us to that well what is the model

839
00:29:45,269 --> 00:29:43,360
that we do need that better explains

840
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:45,279
what's going on i tend to think that

841
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:48,240
model is a kind of more of an idealism

842
00:29:53,190 --> 00:29:51,279
it's more consciousness oriented

843
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:53,200
that instead of

844
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:56,159
the mind the brain generating the mind

845
00:30:02,070 --> 00:29:59,840
the mind generates the brain

846
00:30:05,669 --> 00:30:02,080
interesting you know so all things that

847
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:05,679
we see and experience are manifestations

848
00:30:10,470 --> 00:30:06,480
of

849
00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:12,950
so you almost um

850
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:14,880
you know i i know we're all speculating

851
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:15,919
here but

852
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:18,000
if you were to speculate

853
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:18,880
um

854
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:23,760
disclosure you know whether it be

855
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:26,240
capital d or little d would would be

856
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:29,760
more uh around let's say the mainframe

857
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:32,559
of mankind

858
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:36,000
and who we really are as people versus

859
00:30:38,950 --> 00:30:38,000
hey we got this

860
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:38,960
you know

861
00:30:43,269 --> 00:30:41,360
greasy being that came

862
00:30:45,510 --> 00:30:43,279
from a rusty ship

863
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:45,520
right well i think i think too it's kind

864
00:30:48,470 --> 00:30:46,559
of um

865
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:48,480
it's like a dance right

866
00:30:51,909 --> 00:30:50,080
and think of it like you're not you're a

867
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:51,919
music i can't say it but you're a

868
00:30:55,750 --> 00:30:53,600
musician and so when you're playing with

869
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:55,760
an ensemble like if you're improvising

870
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:57,360
you're you're kind of riffing off of

871
00:31:00,549 --> 00:30:58,960
things that they're doing

872
00:31:03,350 --> 00:31:00,559
and you know something that someone

873
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:03,360
might play on the piano or the guitar

874
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:04,559
you know if you're playing a different

875
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:06,080
instrument that might make you think oh

876
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:07,760
i really want to do this with with you

877
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:09,760
know with percussion or whatever

878
00:31:15,269 --> 00:31:12,559
so i think of disclosure very much like

879
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:15,279
that relationship so the government has

880
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:17,760
a part to play in in the in the song you

881
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:19,120
know and they're going to play a little

882
00:31:22,389 --> 00:31:20,320
bit and then

883
00:31:24,870 --> 00:31:22,399
that elicits a response that elicits a

884
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:24,880
response from those that hear that so

885
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:27,760
people say well i i i recognize some of

886
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:29,360
the things you just said that that that

887
00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:32,159
reminds me of my you know i experience i

888
00:31:38,070 --> 00:31:34,880
had or that reminds me of a story my

889
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:38,080
grandad told me or or whatever

890
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:40,080
and the government says you know like

891
00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:42,320
it's like it's like the the because this

892
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:46,720
is a sort of uh state and public uh

893
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:47,840
dynamic

894
00:31:52,230 --> 00:31:50,399
right the state can't just like print it

895
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:52,240
out on a piece of paper and say here's

896
00:31:56,149 --> 00:31:54,320
what it is the better way to do it would

897
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:56,159
be to say here's a little piece let's

898
00:31:58,389 --> 00:31:57,360
hear from you

899
00:32:00,070 --> 00:31:58,399
now we're going to give you a little bit

900
00:32:01,590 --> 00:32:00,080
more let's hear from you again now

901
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:01,600
you're gonna like so it does kind of

902
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:04,080
unfold in a natural way that everyone

903
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:07,200
then becomes part of that revelatory

904
00:32:09,990 --> 00:32:08,240
truth

905
00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:10,000
and i think that that's just probably

906
00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:12,559
more close to what what it really is and

907
00:32:16,070 --> 00:32:15,039
how we can better understand it

908
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,080
yeah

909
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:18,720
well you you know

910
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:21,600
for all the years that nasa has been

911
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:23,919
looking for extraterrestrial uh

912
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:26,000
intelligent life out there

913
00:32:31,269 --> 00:32:29,440
for many many years um

914
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,279
you know and i actually just came across

915
00:32:35,190 --> 00:32:32,880
um some documents where they talked

916
00:32:38,230 --> 00:32:35,200
about uh their mars mission

917
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:38,240
a few years back or whatever and if they

918
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:40,640
bring samples back and it happens to be

919
00:32:44,549 --> 00:32:43,200
you know a extra terrestrial life sample

920
00:32:46,149 --> 00:32:44,559
or something how they would treat that

921
00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:46,159
and how they would get an oversight

922
00:32:50,870 --> 00:32:48,240
committee and everything and and how to

923
00:32:52,870 --> 00:32:50,880
introduce that and um

924
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:52,880
how things like maybe a lot of people

925
00:32:58,149 --> 00:32:54,880
don't think about like um

926
00:32:59,350 --> 00:32:58,159
uh you know biological containment you

927
00:33:01,750 --> 00:32:59,360
know like

928
00:33:02,789 --> 00:33:01,760
what if something like that happens

929
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:02,799
it's a

930
00:33:07,909 --> 00:33:06,000
there's there's so much to it and

931
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:07,919
i also think that sometimes and i can

932
00:33:12,950 --> 00:33:10,480
only speak for what i see or whatever

933
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:12,960
that that it's made

934
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:16,480
you know such a huge idea is always uh

935
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:18,080
you know people always attempt to make

936
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:21,200
it such a black and white simple idea

937
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:24,000
you know like just tell us that there's

938
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:26,960
beings and you have a ship and tell us

939
00:33:31,269 --> 00:33:29,440
the truth you know and that's it but

940
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:31,279
when you when you think about what that

941
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:32,320
means

942
00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:33,200
you know

943
00:33:37,269 --> 00:33:35,440
it's it's easy because

944
00:33:39,509 --> 00:33:37,279
you know i feel there's a sense that

945
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:39,519
we're programmed to

946
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:40,799
think about

947
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:43,760
um the impossible via television or

948
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:45,440
movies and all that and we're so

949
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:46,799
accustomed to

950
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:49,600
to you know seeing that

951
00:33:54,710 --> 00:33:53,039
but um to actually then be put into the

952
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:54,720
tv so to speak

953
00:33:58,950 --> 00:33:56,720
with this new reality

954
00:34:00,950 --> 00:33:58,960
um would be

955
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:00,960
i think like life-changing or

956
00:34:06,630 --> 00:34:04,159
ontological shock all those terms

957
00:34:08,869 --> 00:34:06,640
wouldn't even come close to describing

958
00:34:11,270 --> 00:34:08,879
what it would really mean to be next to

959
00:34:14,069 --> 00:34:11,280
a different intelligent being that maybe

960
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:14,079
is a gray or

961
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:15,760
is invisible

962
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:17,440
and it starts you know

963
00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:19,919
it just it looks like something you

964
00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:22,159
couldn't even imagine right at this

965
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:24,000
moment in time you know

966
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:25,679
yeah um

967
00:34:28,869 --> 00:34:27,679
so i think you're right where it you

968
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:28,879
know it's

969
00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:30,879
back and forth and government plays a

970
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:32,800
role you know puts a little bit out

971
00:34:36,230 --> 00:34:34,399
there other people play a role pick up

972
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,240
the dance pick up the guitar the other

973
00:34:41,829 --> 00:34:38,399
instruments you know that makes sense

974
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:41,839
especially if it is something uh as

975
00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:43,919
complex and complicated as i would

976
00:34:47,190 --> 00:34:45,040
assume

977
00:34:49,349 --> 00:34:47,200
yeah yeah i agree and and that's why i

978
00:34:51,190 --> 00:34:49,359
do think it's kind of um it'll be a

979
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:51,200
little bit of an intergenerational

980
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:52,720
process like

981
00:34:57,109 --> 00:34:55,119
that generational change understanding

982
00:34:57,829 --> 00:34:57,119
our our sort of role within this and and

983
00:35:00,069 --> 00:34:57,839
two

984
00:35:02,790 --> 00:35:00,079
you know i think we naively think with

985
00:35:04,870 --> 00:35:02,800
this topic that and just like we do with

986
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:04,880
religion so let me draw some parallels

987
00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:05,680
here

988
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:09,599
that when this moment of of revelation

989
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:11,440
occurs that all

990
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:13,760
all questions are answered you know all

991
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,000
problems are solved you know we're kind

992
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:18,480
of no new knowledge like it's here you

993
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:20,160
go you know and i think the reality is

994
00:35:25,109 --> 00:35:21,839
like that's nothing like any experience

995
00:35:28,230 --> 00:35:25,119
anyone's ever had like it's a fantasy uh

996
00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:28,240
and we need to really jettison

997
00:35:32,950 --> 00:35:30,960
that fantasy like right out the airlock

998
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:32,960
you know like it's not it's not it's not

999
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:35,440
normal so the truth is that we're going

1000
00:35:39,109 --> 00:35:37,599
to get more information and then we're

1001
00:35:41,829 --> 00:35:39,119
going to have more questions and and

1002
00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:41,839
that and that the tide of change will

1003
00:35:46,630 --> 00:35:44,079
will happen gradually over quite some

1004
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:46,640
time now what i can't you know control

1005
00:35:50,710 --> 00:35:48,560
for none of us particularly probably can

1006
00:35:52,950 --> 00:35:50,720
is the role in which these others

1007
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,960
whatever they are are are going to play

1008
00:35:56,870 --> 00:35:53,920
a part

1009
00:35:58,710 --> 00:35:56,880
you know in this story but yeah but if

1010
00:36:01,829 --> 00:35:58,720
they are let's just hypothetical if they

1011
00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:01,839
are aware of our current state

1012
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:04,960
and condition of uh of knowledge and

1013
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:06,960
awareness of our place in the universe

1014
00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:07,920
whatever

1015
00:36:12,790 --> 00:36:09,680
and they and they can see that in their

1016
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:12,800
own history for example you would hope

1017
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:14,880
and this is again anthropomorphizing so

1018
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:17,440
i'm i'm going to do it and i apologize

1019
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:18,960
but you would hope they would have some

1020
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,040
presence of mind to know like there's a

1021
00:36:25,510 --> 00:36:23,280
right way to kind of go about this and

1022
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:25,520
there's a wrong way that there's a

1023
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:27,040
just like you're raising a kid you know

1024
00:36:30,310 --> 00:36:28,720
there's a right way to teach them how to

1025
00:36:31,109 --> 00:36:30,320
how to do something and there's a wrong

1026
00:36:33,270 --> 00:36:31,119
way

1027
00:36:34,550 --> 00:36:33,280
uh you know so and you you've learned

1028
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:34,560
that through your own experience you

1029
00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:36,400
know you learn what when you teach your

1030
00:36:40,710 --> 00:36:38,000
kid the wrong way you learn that real

1031
00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:40,720
fast like things go wrong fast uh but if

1032
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:42,960
you do it the right way you know it goes

1033
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:45,200
much more smoothly so that i think is uh

1034
00:36:48,870 --> 00:36:47,200
you know part of what's going on here as

1035
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:48,880
well that there is

1036
00:36:52,630 --> 00:36:51,599
you know sort of this uh again kind of a

1037
00:36:56,790 --> 00:36:52,640
shared

1038
00:37:04,230 --> 00:36:56,800
yeah

1039
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:04,240
commented this

1040
00:37:09,510 --> 00:37:07,280
and i i really agree with that

1041
00:37:11,829 --> 00:37:09,520
thanks i really do uh and may and it

1042
00:37:15,270 --> 00:37:11,839
makes it um

1043
00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:15,280
it makes things uh easy to digest easier

1044
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:18,240
to digest um

1045
00:37:21,349 --> 00:37:19,440
so to speak

1046
00:37:22,180 --> 00:37:21,359
and it's also um

1047
00:37:23,750 --> 00:37:22,190
kind of um

1048
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:23,760
[Music]

1049
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:25,520
thought building

1050
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:27,520
you know a bit too which which is great

1051
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:30,079
it instigates your own creativeness

1052
00:37:34,550 --> 00:37:33,839
and thinking about things um differently

1053
00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:34,560
and

1054
00:37:38,950 --> 00:37:36,079
you know because there is no real

1055
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:38,960
correct way i feel um so

1056
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:40,079
you know when you take the kind of

1057
00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:41,760
direction you're taking i i feel like

1058
00:37:45,670 --> 00:37:43,920
it's a part of positive thing

1059
00:37:47,109 --> 00:37:45,680
um and when you were talking i thought

1060
00:37:49,270 --> 00:37:47,119
of um

1061
00:37:51,670 --> 00:37:49,280
you know disclosure as like uh

1062
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:51,680
technology you know so to speak like a

1063
00:37:57,270 --> 00:37:52,640
phone

1064
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:57,280
know these things they were

1065
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:58,720
you know

1066
00:38:08,550 --> 00:37:59,680
the

1067
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:08,560
don't even think work anymore that are

1068
00:38:12,790 --> 00:38:11,280
still up and rusty all tagged up with

1069
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:12,800
graffiti you know

1070
00:38:17,430 --> 00:38:15,680
and then people have these and you give

1071
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:17,440
a little bit of information a little bit

1072
00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:19,440
of technology people get used to it they

1073
00:38:23,109 --> 00:38:20,960
have questions at first then they're

1074
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:23,119
okay with it and it's normal and things

1075
00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:25,920
slowly move up until here we are talking

1076
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:29,440
live exactly on the computer screen

1077
00:38:33,510 --> 00:38:30,320
right

1078
00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:33,520
you know saying that makes me think of

1079
00:38:36,230 --> 00:38:35,200
something too that i think is something

1080
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:36,240
to

1081
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:39,680
highlight and that's that um

1082
00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:41,119
technology

1083
00:38:45,109 --> 00:38:43,440
is uh it's incredibly useful and

1084
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:45,119
powerful and allows us to do a lot of

1085
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:48,240
things but it also really does appeal to

1086
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:51,680
our our sensory experience um you know

1087
00:38:56,710 --> 00:38:53,839
pretty heavily and you can see that just

1088
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:56,720
looking around in any public place today

1089
00:39:00,069 --> 00:38:57,839
where people you know they're going to

1090
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:00,079
be glued to their phones so it's it's

1091
00:39:06,870 --> 00:39:03,599
really appealing to that uh sensory pull

1092
00:39:09,349 --> 00:39:06,880
almost like our animalistic kind of uh

1093
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:09,359
instincts you know are drawn to these

1094
00:39:15,030 --> 00:39:13,119
dopamine hits and whatnot but but

1095
00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:15,040
developing our sort of consciousness

1096
00:39:19,270 --> 00:39:17,599
layer as an as a separate technology is

1097
00:39:21,270 --> 00:39:19,280
something that maybe we do need we need

1098
00:39:23,589 --> 00:39:21,280
to sort of look at more

1099
00:39:27,990 --> 00:39:23,599
seriously and pay more closely attention

1100
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:28,000
to that because i would argue that uh

1101
00:39:32,310 --> 00:39:29,520
the inner

1102
00:39:35,190 --> 00:39:32,320
uh sort of exploration the the landscape

1103
00:39:36,870 --> 00:39:35,200
of our minds the the technology that our

1104
00:39:38,870 --> 00:39:36,880
consciousness can kind of reveal to

1105
00:39:41,349 --> 00:39:38,880
ourselves is something that we've kind

1106
00:39:43,990 --> 00:39:41,359
of under developed you know we've leaned

1107
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:44,000
pretty heavily on this externality

1108
00:39:47,430 --> 00:39:45,839
uh and and we're continuing to do so

1109
00:39:49,030 --> 00:39:47,440
it's like the metaverse right i mean not

1110
00:39:51,349 --> 00:39:49,040
a new concept but it's becoming more

1111
00:39:52,870 --> 00:39:51,359
manifest in our world through things

1112
00:39:54,630 --> 00:39:52,880
like this and then you know virtual

1113
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:54,640
reality augmented reality but all of

1114
00:39:59,670 --> 00:39:56,880
those technologies are again appealing

1115
00:40:01,510 --> 00:39:59,680
to our you know sort of sensory pull

1116
00:40:03,670 --> 00:40:01,520
whereas i think

1117
00:40:04,950 --> 00:40:03,680
if we aren't careful we're really just

1118
00:40:06,309 --> 00:40:04,960
going to be kind of like

1119
00:40:08,150 --> 00:40:06,319
uh

1120
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:08,160
skipping from one experience to the

1121
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:11,440
other like without any real cognitive

1122
00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:12,880
involvement like we're just going to be

1123
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:14,400
pulled along

1124
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:16,560
just by like instinctual nature

1125
00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:18,960
like playing a really complicated video

1126
00:40:22,069 --> 00:40:20,640
game for the first time and you only get

1127
00:40:24,069 --> 00:40:22,079
like the one shot

1128
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:24,079
yeah you know sure you have all these

1129
00:40:28,309 --> 00:40:26,079
different aspects to it or whatever

1130
00:40:29,750 --> 00:40:28,319
like uh something that's interesting and

1131
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:29,760
um

1132
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:31,520
brought up here

1133
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:33,280
i mean i kind of think it touches on

1134
00:40:37,829 --> 00:40:35,359
what you're saying yeah yeah we can talk

1135
00:40:40,550 --> 00:40:37,839
about that too so and i i really

1136
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:40,560
resonate with this um

1137
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:42,640
you know i think what's hard is

1138
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:44,400
understanding that

1139
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:47,200
as an adult in a society

1140
00:40:51,109 --> 00:40:49,040
there's information that you may not

1141
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:51,119
have access to you know

1142
00:40:54,950 --> 00:40:53,040
like it's it

1143
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:54,960
there's a sense in which

1144
00:40:58,390 --> 00:40:56,720
no one wants to be

1145
00:41:01,270 --> 00:40:58,400
no one wants to feel like they're a

1146
00:41:02,950 --> 00:41:01,280
child right right and i can see that in

1147
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:02,960
my own children who are children you

1148
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:04,800
know they are upset by the fact that

1149
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:07,280
they have to do things or have to you

1150
00:41:11,670 --> 00:41:09,599
know kind of interact in the world

1151
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:11,680
in a way that that is not the same way

1152
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:14,160
that they see adults interacting

1153
00:41:20,550 --> 00:41:16,800
but in in the same way just so so are we

1154
00:41:23,109 --> 00:41:20,560
adults in a society uh you know at large

1155
00:41:24,710 --> 00:41:23,119
and the fact is that they're

1156
00:41:26,230 --> 00:41:24,720
you know whether i like it or not it's

1157
00:41:27,990 --> 00:41:26,240
just the reality that we live in there

1158
00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:28,000
are things that states know and things

1159
00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:29,520
that states do

1160
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:31,760
that i don't have direct access to and

1161
00:41:36,950 --> 00:41:34,400
and nor should i for that matter

1162
00:41:39,349 --> 00:41:36,960
um you know i don't have uh the

1163
00:41:40,309 --> 00:41:39,359
bandwidth uh to

1164
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:40,319
you know

1165
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:42,079
know all the things that our government

1166
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:44,160
knows about this that or the other and

1167
00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:45,839
that that's why i elect people you know

1168
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:47,119
that's why i go to the voting booth i

1169
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:48,960
need people who consider those meetings

1170
00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:49,599
and

1171
00:41:57,670 --> 00:41:55,520
have my best interests at heart so i

1172
00:42:00,069 --> 00:41:57,680
i really resonate with this desire to

1173
00:42:02,550 --> 00:42:00,079
like want to know all the things at the

1174
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:02,560
same time they have a responsibility to

1175
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:05,680
care for a spectrum of people

1176
00:42:09,510 --> 00:42:06,960
who

1177
00:42:10,950 --> 00:42:09,520
are some like really ready and and would

1178
00:42:13,270 --> 00:42:10,960
be totally fine with some of this

1179
00:42:15,990 --> 00:42:13,280
information and some who are absolutely

1180
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:16,000
not and by the way in adults in society

1181
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:17,440
at least in the us

1182
00:42:21,030 --> 00:42:19,599
they can you know have access to deadly

1183
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:21,040
weapons so like

1184
00:42:25,430 --> 00:42:22,880
there's a responsibility that states

1185
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:25,440
have to kind of maintain a little bit of

1186
00:42:30,870 --> 00:42:28,079
uh of order even if it is a little bit

1187
00:42:32,710 --> 00:42:30,880
anesthetizing again i'm not a i don't

1188
00:42:34,550 --> 00:42:32,720
love that but i just think it's it's a

1189
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:34,560
practical way to look at it and it

1190
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:37,280
depends right it depends on all the

1191
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:39,119
context that surrounds it you know

1192
00:42:43,829 --> 00:42:41,280
absolutely is it

1193
00:42:47,270 --> 00:42:43,839
you know something that if anything's

1194
00:42:49,109 --> 00:42:47,280
withheld things could be worse or sure

1195
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:49,119
did they just find out or have they

1196
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:51,599
known for a long time you know all all

1197
00:42:56,550 --> 00:42:54,079
that sort of stuff yeah makes it makes a

1198
00:42:58,230 --> 00:42:56,560
big difference um right and real quickly

1199
00:42:59,510 --> 00:42:58,240
i don't want to be an apologist you know

1200
00:43:01,670 --> 00:42:59,520
for the government oh that's what you're

1201
00:43:03,750 --> 00:43:01,680
doing oh yeah i am totally saying there

1202
00:43:05,910 --> 00:43:03,760
everything they've done is fine you know

1203
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:05,920
have they made mistakes 100 and are they

1204
00:43:09,670 --> 00:43:07,920
making mistakes i guarantee they are and

1205
00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:09,680
we won't some will find out about some

1206
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:10,880
we won't

1207
00:43:15,109 --> 00:43:13,119
but i do kind of understand you know why

1208
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:15,119
we might be where we are

1209
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:16,240
yeah

1210
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:19,760
well you know i try to be everybody

1211
00:43:24,710 --> 00:43:23,040
you know i still hold out hope that um

1212
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:24,720
generally speaking

1213
00:43:28,470 --> 00:43:25,520
people

1214
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:28,480
do try to do the best they can

1215
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:29,680
with who they are and what they're

1216
00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:31,520
provided and you know who they came to

1217
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:33,280
be as a person based on how they were

1218
00:43:37,349 --> 00:43:36,319
raised in their own experiences right um

1219
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:37,359
so

1220
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,359
yeah yeah for sure we're seeing that now

1221
00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:47,680
play out in front of our own very eyes

1222
00:43:54,790 --> 00:43:50,560
um let me ask you this um

1223
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:54,800
now you to me show a unique um

1224
00:43:59,910 --> 00:43:58,079
drive in this topic like of like get

1225
00:44:01,990 --> 00:43:59,920
things done kind of drive and i've

1226
00:44:05,190 --> 00:44:02,000
experienced it yeah and i see it and i

1227
00:44:06,069 --> 00:44:05,200
see it play out yeah um

1228
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:06,079
what

1229
00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:11,920
that really um

1230
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:14,160
brings all that out and and makes you

1231
00:44:18,790 --> 00:44:16,160
you know continue with your actions and

1232
00:44:22,710 --> 00:44:18,800
complete your tasks

1233
00:44:25,030 --> 00:44:22,720
yeah that's a good question um i uh

1234
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:25,040
ins there's there's the

1235
00:44:28,550 --> 00:44:26,960
layer that i feel like i understand and

1236
00:44:30,069 --> 00:44:28,560
then there's also the layer that is like

1237
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:30,079
a compulsion

1238
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:31,119
um

1239
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:32,240
and

1240
00:44:37,510 --> 00:44:33,760
you know like so i'll talk about both

1241
00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:37,520
the layer i understand is that i enjoy

1242
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:39,119
having this conversation you know i've

1243
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:41,440
always been interested in and you know

1244
00:44:44,630 --> 00:44:43,359
the what ifs the you know search for

1245
00:44:46,069 --> 00:44:44,640
ultimate meaning

1246
00:44:48,150 --> 00:44:46,079
you know that those things are more

1247
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:48,160
interesting to me than uh you know sort

1248
00:44:51,670 --> 00:44:50,640
of the dry uh

1249
00:44:53,829 --> 00:44:51,680
you know

1250
00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:53,839
recipes of life or whatever i just i

1251
00:44:58,309 --> 00:44:56,160
like to i'm an ideas person and they

1252
00:44:59,990 --> 00:44:58,319
really like i like i'm a creative person

1253
00:45:02,550 --> 00:45:00,000
creativity really you know kind of

1254
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:02,560
inspires me

1255
00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:04,560
and i'm also kind of a

1256
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:07,040
uh a community-centered person you know

1257
00:45:10,230 --> 00:45:08,880
so i really look for

1258
00:45:12,790 --> 00:45:10,240
um

1259
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:12,800
ways to strengthen community

1260
00:45:18,630 --> 00:45:16,960
and uh in our little corner of you know

1261
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:18,640
virtual space or whatever

1262
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:20,160
we we have we struggle with that

1263
00:45:24,630 --> 00:45:22,640
sometimes and i think that that's okay i

1264
00:45:27,270 --> 00:45:24,640
i think it's not going to be you know

1265
00:45:29,829 --> 00:45:27,280
kumbaya all the time and it shouldn't be

1266
00:45:31,829 --> 00:45:29,839
but i also think that

1267
00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:31,839
we can talk about our differences we can

1268
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:34,880
talk about the things that inspire us

1269
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:37,359
in a way that is honoring

1270
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:39,440
both where we come from and also what

1271
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,280
others are bringing to the table and and

1272
00:45:45,109 --> 00:45:43,200
still did disagree so i try to bring and

1273
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:45,119
kind of infuse that there's that

1274
00:45:49,750 --> 00:45:48,240
religious aspect of you honoring yeah

1275
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:49,760
totally you know validating yeah

1276
00:45:52,870 --> 00:45:51,760
absolutely because you know like at the

1277
00:45:54,870 --> 00:45:52,880
end of the day

1278
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:54,880
you know i'm here on this rock just like

1279
00:45:58,230 --> 00:45:56,240
everybody else you know and i'm having

1280
00:45:59,670 --> 00:45:58,240
experiences like everybody else so

1281
00:46:02,150 --> 00:45:59,680
uh

1282
00:46:05,190 --> 00:46:02,160
it's hard for me to kind of say

1283
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:05,200
the way you experience the world is is

1284
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:08,240
invalid you know i can disagree with it

1285
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:09,760
i really do try hard to try to

1286
00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:11,040
understand it

1287
00:46:16,950 --> 00:46:14,319
and situate that somehow um and then

1288
00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:16,960
there's the compulsory way so

1289
00:46:20,069 --> 00:46:18,160
and i've had this conversation with a

1290
00:46:21,910 --> 00:46:20,079
lot of different folks in in the

1291
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:21,920
community people who create content too

1292
00:46:25,750 --> 00:46:23,760
there's the sense in which

1293
00:46:27,589 --> 00:46:25,760
i feel like i have to do it like i don't

1294
00:46:29,270 --> 00:46:27,599
i don't know why

1295
00:46:31,990 --> 00:46:29,280
and it's almost like the

1296
00:46:34,230 --> 00:46:32,000
feeling of deja vu uh like

1297
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:34,240
like i may like i've done it already you

1298
00:46:36,870 --> 00:46:35,760
know like it's just something that i

1299
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:36,880
must do

1300
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:40,079
um yeah that is weird isn't it

1301
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:42,319
yeah because it doesn't it feels like um

1302
00:46:47,430 --> 00:46:45,839
almost like an implanted desire

1303
00:46:48,150 --> 00:46:47,440
that you don't know how it got there you

1304
00:46:49,030 --> 00:46:48,160
know

1305
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:49,040
yeah

1306
00:46:51,990 --> 00:46:50,000
um

1307
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:52,000
there's something interesting here

1308
00:46:59,349 --> 00:46:56,079
brought up um about um emotions you know

1309
00:47:00,950 --> 00:46:59,359
um i love that non-human entities uh

1310
00:47:03,510 --> 00:47:00,960
what would it interpret as emotions

1311
00:47:04,950 --> 00:47:03,520
sometimes i think um

1312
00:47:06,309 --> 00:47:04,960
you know the

1313
00:47:08,829 --> 00:47:06,319
pretty pretty

1314
00:47:11,270 --> 00:47:08,839
odd thought is what if they are just

1315
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:11,280
emotional yeah

1316
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:12,480
yeah

1317
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:13,280
um

1318
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:16,240
or something that uh completely you know

1319
00:47:19,670 --> 00:47:18,000
plays off of your psyche and the

1320
00:47:21,829 --> 00:47:19,680
emotional power within it there's so

1321
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:21,839
many things that we don't understand you

1322
00:47:25,589 --> 00:47:22,720
know

1323
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:25,599
like yes emotion and what that could

1324
00:47:28,710 --> 00:47:27,520
what kind of matter that could actually

1325
00:47:30,950 --> 00:47:28,720
create that

1326
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:30,960
you don't see and where that energy goes

1327
00:47:34,870 --> 00:47:33,760
you know quantumly or or whatever

1328
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:34,880
sure um

1329
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,800
so is it very interesting what would you

1330
00:47:39,990 --> 00:47:38,400
what do you take from that no i love

1331
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:40,000
that and that that's something that i've

1332
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:42,720
um i've talked about in other places as

1333
00:47:47,430 --> 00:47:44,160
well that

1334
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:47,440
this is sort of the area of um

1335
00:47:51,670 --> 00:47:49,680
ufology that kind of bothers me right

1336
00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:51,680
and that's that the description of a lot

1337
00:47:55,109 --> 00:47:52,480
of

1338
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:55,119
encounters and entities or whatever is

1339
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:56,160
is

1340
00:47:59,510 --> 00:47:57,920
kind of uh flat

1341
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:59,520
you know like uh like

1342
00:48:04,390 --> 00:48:01,280
gray is a perfect example of this you

1343
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:04,400
know just a very like flat uh

1344
00:48:08,710 --> 00:48:06,720
almost like mechanistic personality or

1345
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:08,720
hive personality

1346
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:09,599
um

1347
00:48:13,990 --> 00:48:11,680
it certainly doesn't

1348
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:14,000
like make me want to like

1349
00:48:17,750 --> 00:48:15,680
be friends become them you know like

1350
00:48:19,270 --> 00:48:17,760
yeah i have a buddy pal there

1351
00:48:21,030 --> 00:48:19,280
but at the same time

1352
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,040
you know i have to kind of step back and

1353
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:23,280
go okay one they're not human i don't

1354
00:48:27,270 --> 00:48:25,920
know what that would be like uh you know

1355
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:27,280
two maybe

1356
00:48:30,150 --> 00:48:28,079
you know

1357
00:48:32,150 --> 00:48:30,160
whatever they are

1358
00:48:34,710 --> 00:48:32,160
who knows they may not be representative

1359
00:48:37,430 --> 00:48:34,720
of a good representative sample of their

1360
00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:37,440
entire culture or whatever it may be

1361
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:39,440
just like i'm gonna have one yeah right

1362
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:41,200
exactly i mean so there's lots of just

1363
00:48:44,790 --> 00:48:42,960
sort of layers to this

1364
00:48:46,630 --> 00:48:44,800
um i

1365
00:48:49,030 --> 00:48:46,640
i you know romantically i'd like to

1366
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:49,040
believe that consciousness if it if they

1367
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:50,319
are conscious

1368
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:52,640
beings you know that they have

1369
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:54,720
uh you know sort of the same kinds of

1370
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:57,200
inner lives and complex

1371
00:49:01,750 --> 00:48:59,119
you know sort of experiences that we do

1372
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:01,760
and i certainly wouldn't want um our

1373
00:49:05,589 --> 00:49:03,680
relationship with them through

1374
00:49:07,109 --> 00:49:05,599
disclosure whatever it looks like to

1375
00:49:08,870 --> 00:49:07,119
diminish

1376
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:08,880
what makes us human beings you know like

1377
00:49:13,750 --> 00:49:11,359
the things that that bring us joy

1378
00:49:15,670 --> 00:49:13,760
uh and and i think emotion plays a huge

1379
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:15,680
part of that i would hate to become like

1380
00:49:19,990 --> 00:49:18,720
um you know a robotic

1381
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:20,000
you know

1382
00:49:23,270 --> 00:49:22,079
yeah it would be awful right like just

1383
00:49:26,870 --> 00:49:23,280
imagine human beings like being

1384
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:26,880
flattened to like a robot it would yeah

1385
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:28,480
well you're very right like i hear that

1386
00:49:33,430 --> 00:49:31,440
a lot during um what you know if you

1387
00:49:35,190 --> 00:49:33,440
listen to contact experiences no they're

1388
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:35,200
not always like this but with grace for

1389
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:36,240
instance

1390
00:49:41,829 --> 00:49:39,440
um people do report a complete lack of

1391
00:49:43,990 --> 00:49:41,839
emotion or any feeling and what's

1392
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:44,000
interesting to me about that is if you

1393
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:45,839
relate that to the physical appearance

1394
00:49:52,390 --> 00:49:48,800
of the gray it's like to a t like

1395
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:52,400
everything's flat bland yeah and blah

1396
00:49:59,510 --> 00:49:54,319
and gray

1397
00:50:01,910 --> 00:49:59,520
so that is interesting to me no if we

1398
00:50:02,870 --> 00:50:01,920
think of a couple things about that you

1399
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:02,880
could think

1400
00:50:09,190 --> 00:50:05,599
um maybe they're yeah like robert just

1401
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:09,200
said uh maybe androids of sorts you know

1402
00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:10,079
um

1403
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:12,640
right aren't able to feel that or could

1404
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:14,720
you even imagine

1405
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,240
how could something be

1406
00:50:19,270 --> 00:50:18,240
intelligent

1407
00:50:21,270 --> 00:50:19,280
and

1408
00:50:24,470 --> 00:50:21,280
um not

1409
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:24,480
give off any kind of emotion now that's

1410
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:26,160
interesting because what we know of

1411
00:50:29,589 --> 00:50:28,079
intelligence a lot of it is based out of

1412
00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:29,599
what's good what's bad what makes me

1413
00:50:33,589 --> 00:50:31,200
feel good what makes me feel bad you

1414
00:50:36,150 --> 00:50:33,599
know your decision making

1415
00:50:38,870 --> 00:50:36,160
and if you take emotion out of it

1416
00:50:43,030 --> 00:50:38,880
some people would say that's um

1417
00:50:45,030 --> 00:50:43,040
uh emotionally intelligent you know but

1418
00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:45,040
it's also just kind of dead

1419
00:50:51,589 --> 00:50:49,200
yeah it's a you know machine right yeah

1420
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,599
and you know or what if they uh you know

1421
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:53,440
because you hear about i've heard

1422
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:55,040
several experiencers sort of talk about

1423
00:50:59,190 --> 00:50:57,520
how they feel things

1424
00:51:00,950 --> 00:50:59,200
almost as if they're made to feel them

1425
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:00,960
when they're in the presence of these

1426
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:04,240
other beings right what if the beings

1427
00:51:09,270 --> 00:51:07,839
are experiencing the emotion via us

1428
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:09,280
experiencing it

1429
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:10,720
you know

1430
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:11,520
so

1431
00:51:17,109 --> 00:51:16,079
a symbiotic relationship happening there

1432
00:51:19,589 --> 00:51:17,119
where

1433
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:19,599
perhaps they're not good at that

1434
00:51:23,910 --> 00:51:21,440
and when they when they interact with us

1435
00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:23,920
they want they almost elicit

1436
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:26,400
this response in us in order for them to

1437
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:31,750
interesting now then you would have to

1438
00:51:37,750 --> 00:51:33,359
think of the motive behind that is that

1439
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:37,760
just a fun is that fun for you mr gray

1440
00:51:41,349 --> 00:51:39,920
just toying with me right yeah yeah or

1441
00:51:42,710 --> 00:51:41,359
are you getting off on this somehow

1442
00:51:44,950 --> 00:51:42,720
what's the deal it's a very good

1443
00:51:46,549 --> 00:51:44,960
question yeah very interesting or is

1444
00:51:49,270 --> 00:51:46,559
that even representational what's

1445
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:49,280
happening right so let me use a quick

1446
00:51:53,510 --> 00:51:51,359
analogy if you've ever seen the matrix

1447
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:53,520
um you know there's the first few

1448
00:51:56,950 --> 00:51:55,280
minutes of that movie where they capture

1449
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:56,960
neo they put them in the detention room

1450
00:52:00,630 --> 00:51:59,200
or whatever and they put that bug

1451
00:52:02,549 --> 00:52:00,640
uh in them

1452
00:52:04,390 --> 00:52:02,559
and the bug comes out you know they pull

1453
00:52:06,069 --> 00:52:04,400
it out of the car and out of his body

1454
00:52:07,270 --> 00:52:06,079
later in a car and throw it out in the

1455
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:07,280
pavement or whatever and it looks like

1456
00:52:10,790 --> 00:52:09,119
technology you know it appears like it's

1457
00:52:12,309 --> 00:52:10,800
a technology but really it's just a

1458
00:52:14,069 --> 00:52:12,319
representation

1459
00:52:15,990 --> 00:52:14,079
of something happening to him in the

1460
00:52:17,990 --> 00:52:16,000
matrix right so

1461
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:18,000
this could very well be what's happening

1462
00:52:21,670 --> 00:52:20,160
with abduction experience that there are

1463
00:52:24,069 --> 00:52:21,680
things that appear as if they are

1464
00:52:26,470 --> 00:52:24,079
technology or appear to be happening to

1465
00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:26,480
us but what what they really are is

1466
00:52:29,349 --> 00:52:28,160
something that we cannot directly

1467
00:52:31,430 --> 00:52:29,359
perceive

1468
00:52:32,549 --> 00:52:31,440
it's just it's just represented to us in

1469
00:52:33,910 --> 00:52:32,559
that way

1470
00:52:35,670 --> 00:52:33,920
um

1471
00:52:37,750 --> 00:52:35,680
you can go a step further

1472
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:37,760
yeah right sure it's like

1473
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:39,680
in turn are there are there emotions

1474
00:52:44,630 --> 00:52:43,440
even uh relative to ours at all right

1475
00:52:46,309 --> 00:52:44,640
right is there

1476
00:52:47,990 --> 00:52:46,319
like different colors they're different

1477
00:52:49,349 --> 00:52:48,000
emotions that we don't need completely

1478
00:52:50,950 --> 00:52:49,359
that's right

1479
00:52:52,870 --> 00:52:50,960
yeah and then how do you you know how

1480
00:52:53,589 --> 00:52:52,880
would we relate to them period right i

1481
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:53,599
mean

1482
00:53:02,069 --> 00:52:56,480
yeah let's just throw in the dowel

1483
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,109
you know we were we had seven or so

1484
00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:07,920
minutes to hit the hour but

1485
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:14,230
do you think it's uh beneficial or not

1486
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:17,359
to even begin comparing

1487
00:53:21,270 --> 00:53:18,559
uh what

1488
00:53:23,990 --> 00:53:21,280
uh the non-human entities are or could

1489
00:53:25,990 --> 00:53:24,000
be to things we're familiar with like um

1490
00:53:26,950 --> 00:53:26,000
angels and demons or

1491
00:53:33,750 --> 00:53:26,960
or

1492
00:53:36,309 --> 00:53:33,760
it best to

1493
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:36,319
uh start fresh so to speak what do you

1494
00:53:38,710 --> 00:53:37,520
think

1495
00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:38,720
yeah that's a good question well we're

1496
00:53:43,990 --> 00:53:41,040
always going to start i guess with

1497
00:53:46,549 --> 00:53:44,000
the known things in our world and we're

1498
00:53:48,549 --> 00:53:46,559
going to pull them into

1499
00:53:52,230 --> 00:53:48,559
experience um

1500
00:53:54,390 --> 00:53:52,240
yeah and so i would hope that

1501
00:53:56,549 --> 00:53:54,400
like that's just kind of like the entry

1502
00:53:58,230 --> 00:53:56,559
point right so

1503
00:53:59,910 --> 00:53:58,240
i would i would encourage everybody to

1504
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:59,920
think of it as the start of a

1505
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:01,680
relationship and a journey rather than

1506
00:54:06,069 --> 00:54:04,000
the end you know so

1507
00:54:08,870 --> 00:54:06,079
the moment that we have more information

1508
00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:08,880
that becomes an invitation to

1509
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:10,480
open our awareness

1510
00:54:14,150 --> 00:54:12,480
further

1511
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:14,160
you know beyond whatever that might

1512
00:54:17,589 --> 00:54:15,359
appear to be

1513
00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:17,599
like we should be okay with at least the

1514
00:54:20,309 --> 00:54:18,960
first saying well that looks like a blah

1515
00:54:22,309 --> 00:54:20,319
blah blah or that's like a you know

1516
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,319
giant insect alien but then kind of

1517
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:24,000
going further than that and saying what

1518
00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:25,520
is this really you know is it something

1519
00:54:30,390 --> 00:54:27,920
beyond that and allowing ourselves to be

1520
00:54:32,950 --> 00:54:30,400
open to sort of new definitions new

1521
00:54:34,150 --> 00:54:32,960
symbols that help us get closer to what

1522
00:54:36,230 --> 00:54:34,160
that is but

1523
00:54:38,549 --> 00:54:36,240
but i think regardless of how we do that

1524
00:54:40,789 --> 00:54:38,559
we're we're always going to be in flux

1525
00:54:42,309 --> 00:54:40,799
and how we understand what they are just

1526
00:54:44,470 --> 00:54:42,319
like we are in flux with how we

1527
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:44,480
understand our own humanity

1528
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,480
you know that continues to change as our

1529
00:54:50,630 --> 00:54:48,720
knowledge of our biology and

1530
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:50,640
and our you know minds and consciousness

1531
00:54:53,589 --> 00:54:52,400
all that stuff changes our perception of

1532
00:54:54,390 --> 00:54:53,599
who we are

1533
00:54:56,069 --> 00:54:54,400
yeah

1534
00:54:58,150 --> 00:54:56,079
um you know

1535
00:54:59,270 --> 00:54:58,160
i think it was the lew that said this is

1536
00:55:08,390 --> 00:54:59,280
um

1537
00:55:09,190 --> 00:55:08,400
something else

1538
00:55:10,870 --> 00:55:09,200
um

1539
00:55:12,789 --> 00:55:10,880
what do you think

1540
00:55:14,470 --> 00:55:12,799
it is about um

1541
00:55:15,270 --> 00:55:14,480
understanding each other as human beings

1542
00:55:20,390 --> 00:55:15,280
that

1543
00:55:22,549 --> 00:55:20,400
know i know it's hard to say because

1544
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:22,559
everyone's different but sure just uh

1545
00:55:27,349 --> 00:55:25,119
generally speaking uh what is there to

1546
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:27,359
us to understand yet do you think i

1547
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:28,880
think it comes back to consciousness i

1548
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:30,319
think it's um

1549
00:55:35,670 --> 00:55:32,400
you know the way in which we seem to

1550
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:35,680
have um an ability to ask questions

1551
00:55:39,990 --> 00:55:38,240
about our inner life that you know other

1552
00:55:42,870 --> 00:55:40,000
beings that we interact with in in the

1553
00:55:44,870 --> 00:55:42,880
earth you know don't seem to be capable

1554
00:55:47,109 --> 00:55:44,880
of doing you know

1555
00:55:49,829 --> 00:55:47,119
at least at least with the fidelity that

1556
00:55:52,549 --> 00:55:49,839
we can do it you know so so i think it

1557
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:52,559
starts there and um

1558
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:54,160
you know again i'm coming back to like

1559
00:55:57,430 --> 00:55:56,160
where i'm at now with this entire topic

1560
00:55:59,030 --> 00:55:57,440
and that's that

1561
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:59,040
you know we just need a different

1562
00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:01,359
metaphysical explanation for what's

1563
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:03,839
going on and let me use one that i'll

1564
00:56:08,390 --> 00:56:06,400
steal one from bernardo castro so i'm a

1565
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:08,400
big fan of bernardo castro

1566
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:11,760
and he's an analytic idealist but he

1567
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:14,640
explains it this way that our lived

1568
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:16,880
experience is like you're in an airplane

1569
00:56:20,789 --> 00:56:18,559
cockpit okay

1570
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:20,799
and you're looking at that dashboard of

1571
00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:22,960
dials in front of you you can fly the

1572
00:56:26,470 --> 00:56:24,720
airplane just by looking at that

1573
00:56:28,150 --> 00:56:26,480
dashboard of dials you don't have to

1574
00:56:29,109 --> 00:56:28,160
actually have any

1575
00:56:31,270 --> 00:56:29,119
site

1576
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:31,280
about the air around the airplane you

1577
00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:33,359
know the dials are a representation of

1578
00:56:37,829 --> 00:56:35,680
what is happening outside of that plane

1579
00:56:38,870 --> 00:56:37,839
so that's actually just like

1580
00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:38,880
our life

1581
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:41,680
everything you see and perceive is the

1582
00:56:47,109 --> 00:56:44,720
dashboard we are not directly perceiving

1583
00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:47,119
the error we are just perceiving the

1584
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:48,240
dashboard

1585
00:56:51,430 --> 00:56:50,240
so if you think about things from that

1586
00:56:54,789 --> 00:56:51,440
perspective

1587
00:56:56,710 --> 00:56:54,799
uh everything is a layer beyond it's

1588
00:56:59,829 --> 00:56:56,720
representational but it's not actually

1589
00:57:02,069 --> 00:56:59,839
what it is reality as it really is

1590
00:57:04,390 --> 00:57:02,079
and so you know ufos and high

1591
00:57:05,910 --> 00:57:04,400
strangeness the paranormal they are

1592
00:57:07,670 --> 00:57:05,920
happening in our

1593
00:57:09,589 --> 00:57:07,680
dashboard of perception

1594
00:57:11,670 --> 00:57:09,599
but they are representational something

1595
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:11,680
that is beyond that that it that it is

1596
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:13,680
what is actually real

1597
00:57:18,789 --> 00:57:16,079
yeah almost like i i think of the truman

1598
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:18,799
show a lot uh if you've seen that movie

1599
00:57:22,630 --> 00:57:20,480
and yeah you know

1600
00:57:24,710 --> 00:57:22,640
like little things start breaking down

1601
00:57:26,390 --> 00:57:24,720
and he starts you know

1602
00:57:28,470 --> 00:57:26,400
i don't think this is right why do

1603
00:57:29,589 --> 00:57:28,480
people not want me to go on vacation so

1604
00:57:31,270 --> 00:57:29,599
badly

1605
00:57:32,789 --> 00:57:31,280
you know right well that's a great point

1606
00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:32,799
it's a good analogy because it shows you

1607
00:57:37,030 --> 00:57:34,880
how the phenomenon actually does start

1608
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:37,040
chipping away at the

1609
00:57:40,870 --> 00:57:39,599
at the you know creates cracks in our in

1610
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:40,880
our in our

1611
00:57:44,950 --> 00:57:42,960
baseline understanding of how things are

1612
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:44,960
and it does like kind of create a little

1613
00:57:49,510 --> 00:57:47,680
wedge there to then open you up to these

1614
00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:49,520
different ways of thinking and i think

1615
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:52,000
that it it has to do that like that's

1616
00:57:56,069 --> 00:57:54,720
the transformative power of it on the

1617
00:57:57,349 --> 00:57:56,079
human psyche

1618
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:57,359
and we have to go through that

1619
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:59,280
transformation in order to be ready for

1620
00:58:02,230 --> 00:58:00,720
it you know it really is coming back to

1621
00:58:03,510 --> 00:58:02,240
that dance thing too

1622
00:58:04,789 --> 00:58:03,520
yeah

1623
00:58:07,030 --> 00:58:04,799
have you thought about that when you

1624
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:07,040
were younger even i think even before

1625
00:58:11,670 --> 00:58:09,040
that movie came out i had thoughts of

1626
00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:11,680
like how do i know this isn't all just

1627
00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:14,000
like a setup scene right here right in

1628
00:58:18,390 --> 00:58:16,240
front of me you know and yeah everything

1629
00:58:20,710 --> 00:58:18,400
else is not even real that's just you

1630
00:58:21,990 --> 00:58:20,720
know of course i mean we and humans

1631
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:22,000
clearly have struggled with this

1632
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:23,119
question

1633
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:24,960
as long as we've been able to record our

1634
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:27,599
our thoughts right i mean

1635
00:58:31,109 --> 00:58:29,760
you know it's it's it's a it's our

1636
00:58:33,670 --> 00:58:31,119
part of our struggle and i think that

1637
00:58:35,349 --> 00:58:33,680
that also points to its validity the

1638
00:58:37,190 --> 00:58:35,359
fact that we continue to wrestle with

1639
00:58:38,549 --> 00:58:37,200
this concept means that there is

1640
00:58:40,390 --> 00:58:38,559
something to it

1641
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:40,400
there is there is there's depths to

1642
00:58:44,549 --> 00:58:42,319
plumb there

1643
00:58:47,030 --> 00:58:44,559
yeah most definitely

1644
00:58:49,109 --> 00:58:47,040
i enjoyed our conversation yeah likewise

1645
00:58:50,789 --> 00:58:49,119
i really did um

1646
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:50,799
hope you'll come back we'll have more

1647
00:58:53,349 --> 00:58:52,240
conversations

1648
00:58:56,069 --> 00:58:53,359
um

1649
00:58:58,390 --> 00:58:56,079
why don't you tell folks where they can

1650
00:59:00,789 --> 00:58:58,400
find you because i i know a lot of

1651
00:59:03,270 --> 00:59:00,799
people enjoyed you and you know i think

1652
00:59:05,190 --> 00:59:03,280
a lot more will will watch this

1653
00:59:07,190 --> 00:59:05,200
tonight or in the next few days and

1654
00:59:08,789 --> 00:59:07,200
we'll want to you know track you down of

1655
00:59:10,789 --> 00:59:08,799
course yeah thanks for having me on so

1656
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:10,799
you can find me in two places

1657
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:13,680
um so my co-host on the show calling all

1658
00:59:18,230 --> 00:59:16,319
beings that's uh on youtube uh with a

1659
00:59:19,670 --> 00:59:18,240
kind of a wider panel of folks and we

1660
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:19,680
you know interview a lot of the same

1661
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:21,359
folks that other folks interview and

1662
00:59:25,589 --> 00:59:23,280
just try to have a good time and

1663
00:59:27,109 --> 00:59:25,599
uh you know kind of get to what is

1664
00:59:29,109 --> 00:59:27,119
happening in a

1665
00:59:31,270 --> 00:59:29,119
group approach and you know really

1666
00:59:33,349 --> 00:59:31,280
appreciate everybody in that team

1667
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:33,359
and then my other project is liminal

1668
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:35,280
frames and that's frames spelled with a

1669
00:59:40,950 --> 00:59:38,480
ph a little nod to the phenomena there

1670
00:59:44,069 --> 00:59:40,960
and you can find liminal frames on the

1671
00:59:45,910 --> 00:59:44,079
exo academia youtube channel so my

1672
00:59:47,270 --> 00:59:45,920
partner in crime with that show as exo

1673
00:59:49,510 --> 00:59:47,280
academian

1674
00:59:51,109 --> 00:59:49,520
and uh he has his own show called point

1675
00:59:53,990 --> 00:59:51,119
of convergence

1676
00:59:56,230 --> 00:59:54,000
whenever that show's not out we put an

1677
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:56,240
episode of liminal frames out and the

1678
01:00:00,630 --> 00:59:57,920
point of that show is to really take

1679
01:00:02,230 --> 01:00:00,640
these topics and uh

1680
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:02,240
wrestle with them look at them from a

1681
01:00:06,390 --> 01:00:04,000
lot of different angles

1682
01:00:08,870 --> 01:00:06,400
because we're convinced that uh you know

1683
01:00:10,470 --> 01:00:08,880
we have to be able to

1684
01:00:12,630 --> 01:00:10,480
kind of work through these different

1685
01:00:14,390 --> 01:00:12,640
facets of of

1686
01:00:16,069 --> 01:00:14,400
of the phenomenon in order to better

1687
01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:16,079
understanding it's it's not just one

1688
01:00:20,230 --> 01:00:18,640
thing yeah actually explore those ideas

1689
01:00:21,510 --> 01:00:20,240
so that that's the best place to define

1690
01:00:24,230 --> 01:00:21,520
me and then of course my twitter handle

1691
01:00:26,069 --> 01:00:24,240
is in the in the nameplate there and

1692
01:00:27,750 --> 01:00:26,079
happy to respond to dms and whatnot but

1693
01:00:29,430 --> 01:00:27,760
yeah

1694
01:00:30,309 --> 01:00:29,440
and until you start getting the weird

1695
01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:30,319
ones

1696
01:00:34,710 --> 01:00:31,040
just

1697
01:00:36,630 --> 01:00:34,720
accept those not happy at all

1698
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:36,640
all right brother will you have a great

1699
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:39,680
weekend thanks again for coming on and i

1700
01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:42,400
look forward to book club yeah yeah

1701
01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:44,000
coming up yeah or we're going to read

1702
01:00:46,390 --> 01:00:45,680
trinity so absolutely that'll be a good

1703
01:00:50,789 --> 01:00:46,400
one

1704
01:00:52,230 --> 01:00:50,799
adios yeah see you man peace bye

1705
01:00:54,630 --> 01:00:52,240
uh all right thanks for hanging out

1706
01:00:57,910 --> 01:00:54,640
y'all um especially to those who are

1707
01:01:01,109 --> 01:00:57,920
here uh wednesday yesterday today uh i

1708
01:01:03,510 --> 01:01:01,119
really enjoyed our three six

1709
01:01:05,109 --> 01:01:03,520
days of just wonderful guests where we

1710
01:01:08,549 --> 01:01:05,119
got to kind of um

1711
01:01:11,829 --> 01:01:08,559
try our best to to stretch the mind

1712
01:01:14,390 --> 01:01:11,839
and work those brain muscles a bit

1713
01:01:16,630 --> 01:01:14,400
um i know i'm not the smartest uh person

1714
01:01:19,589 --> 01:01:16,640
in the world but i do appreciate

1715
01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:19,599
i'm trying to learn from people like um

1716
01:01:25,829 --> 01:01:22,240
um our guest today and people like jay

1717
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:25,839
and stuart and everybody else that i

1718
01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:26,960
have on here

1719
01:01:30,630 --> 01:01:28,720
that's the kind of thing that makes me

1720
01:01:32,390 --> 01:01:30,640
better so

1721
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:32,400
i appreciate you guys being so great in

1722
01:01:36,549 --> 01:01:34,160
the comments and hanging out

1723
01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:36,559
i really do appreciate it like the video

1724
01:01:39,589 --> 01:01:38,720
um share it if you can subscribe if you

1725
01:01:43,109 --> 01:01:39,599
haven't

1726
01:01:44,390 --> 01:01:43,119
um and yeah we'll see what happens next

1727
01:01:45,490 --> 01:01:44,400
week

1728
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:45,500
it's always a mystery

1729
01:01:48,870 --> 01:01:47,040
[Music]

1730
01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:48,880
but it's always great

1731
01:02:00,720 --> 01:01:50,480
so

1732
01:02:00,730 --> 01:02:24,309
[Music]

1733
01:02:24,319 --> 01:02:29,640
so